00:00:00: As the journey goes from one day to the next chapter, we are transforming despair into hope.

00:00:09: Trauma into healing and revenge into reconciliation.

00:00:13: We acknowledge, recognize The trauma, the pain, the suffering ,the loss But we're transferring them through our own personal stories who share From people were meeting along their journey And stories from the holy books, Old Testament-y Bible Koran and from places around the world that we are inspired.

00:00:38: From Rwanda, North Ireland South Africa And others.

00:01:04: Hi and welcome to Kleiner Pauso podcast.

00:01:07: My name is Nicole Schweiß, I'm your host.

00:01:11: this podcast is an independent project created from the desire to look at schools through critical diversity conscious and multi perspective lenses.

00:01:22: The conversations we're having here explore questions that often receive too little attention in schools and society, in general.

00:01:31: Discrimination power structures racism anti-Semitism gender disability social inequality political education And the ways in which schools can become fairer more inclusive spaces.

00:01:46: There are several simple ways you can help Kleiner pauser to reach more people subscribe To The podcast on your favorite pod catcher or on all of them, leave a rating or comment.

00:01:58: Share this episode with someone who might find it interesting and follow the podcast on social media.

00:02:04: there you will always find additional sorts quotes resources information and ideas connected to the conversations.

00:02:13: if You found this episode particularly helpful feel free to tag people organizations Who may also benefit from the conversation?

00:02:22: All these May seem like small actions, but they make a real difference.

00:02:26: It's one woman project here and it is not the easiest times to keep her going!

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00:02:49: Kleiner Pause is built on encounters, exchange and connection.

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00:03:02: And this said thank-you for listening.. ..for being here and helping these conversations continue.

00:03:09: Enjoy this episode of The Conversation & Reflection On It !

00:03:13: Of course feel free to reach out afterwards!

00:03:22: Welcome to a new episode of Kleiner Pauser Podcast.

00:03:27: What does it mean?

00:03:28: Short break, if you have the different breaks in school and this is short one but usually longer than the breaks in schools.

00:03:36: It has another title underneath which says encounters In The Tea Kitchen And I'm really happy that you're here.

00:03:44: Usually in the podcast, I start with asking guests to introduce themselves and if they want it would be nice because people are a lot of times sitting on podcasts or conversations with different heads-on sometimes say i am writer an activist whatever so let me choose.

00:04:11: So, hi again.

00:04:12: My name is Maozzi Nonn.

00:04:13: I'm a peacemaker.

00:04:15: i was born and raised in Israel the last twenty years living in Benyaminah when we are recording The podcast.

00:04:22: on October sevens I lost both my parents.

00:04:24: they were among the first victims of their Hamas attack And since then I've decided to achieve a lasting peace A just peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

00:04:34: by twenty thirty I am partnering with many individual organizations.

00:04:41: partner, companion.

00:04:42: brother is the Palestinian peace activist and peacemaker Aziza Boussala.

00:04:47: Together we co-author.

00:04:49: The Future Is Peace.

00:04:50: it's already a New York time bestseller And soon September seventeenth will be published in Germany.

00:04:57: Yes!

00:04:59: Thank you.

00:04:59: first of all I'm sorry for your loss.

00:05:04: I think i hear already by your voice but still, im gonna ask this question because in recent years it has been a little bit complicated to ask how are you?

00:05:14: In general.

00:05:15: Because people are struggling with answering these questions Still can kind of set the tone for a conversation and an interview situation.

00:05:27: So I'm going to ask, like how are you today?

00:05:29: For this situation now before we dive a little bit deeper into the book.

00:05:33: Sure!

00:05:35: And Aziz and I have been really speaking all over the world so many places what we encourage everyone if it's for panelist interviews other occasions To us difficult questions because If you're shy or embarrassed to ask these difficult questions It can be How Are You then?

00:05:53: we are missing the discussion and we're going around it.

00:05:56: We aren't going to the core of issues, problems but also solutions for potentials in the future.

00:06:03: so I just came from camping at a beach about ten minutes ago here on the Mediterranean Sea.

00:06:10: I was just camping with my wife and had an amazing time!

00:06:14: At the same time It's very sad not just moment but years, the most devastating year within this century long Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

00:06:24: People are losing their life on a daily basis in Gaza and West Bank In Lebanon, Israel.

00:06:33: And it's very sad time A tragic period of human history The Jewish people or Palestinian people.

00:06:44: But at the same time, for me personally it's also been a moment or time of spiritual growths.

00:06:52: Of journey into faith and to conscience And feel as productive and creative As I have ever been.

00:07:03: Yeah which is already very much thing that i came to learn relatively late, I would say in maybe my life not just as a teacher or an educator myself to realize that there can be lots of feelings and a lot of status quo within oneself at the same time which is basically also what you're describing.

00:07:31: Which makes this question how are maybe not just a difficult question, but more complex questions when you really think about it.

00:07:40: Because most of the time we are asking this question is like saying... You meet someone and say hey!

00:07:49: How do I look on the street?

00:07:51: It's that one word answer?

00:07:52: Yes

00:07:53: exactly so.

00:07:54: thank-you for answering.

00:08:00: It's a podcast that has a lot to do with education, school and educational systems.

00:08:08: I start usually by trying to form a bridge in between the topics that my guests are focusing on for example their writings or activities of work and school.

00:08:23: And i want you ask what is first thing comes into your mind When you think about school or education, educational institutions.

00:08:35: So I'm also a father of three kids.

00:08:39: only one is still in the Israeli education system and for us as parents The most important thing In school was their social aspects to meet your fellow students Kids from your age group And learn how to social with them to be supported, some time to fight but solve those issues and being exercised or getting the ability become a social human being.

00:09:08: So for me that's their most important aspects of school.

00:09:13: if in education I don't see schools I'm not outsourcing my kids' educations into schools.

00:09:27: So school started home at a very young age by modeling values through action, not just for ideas or theory.

00:09:40: And for us two things that we always focused with our kids.

00:09:45: one was to have family dinner every evening as seven

00:09:52: p.m.,

00:09:53: a dinner, it's not something fancy but salad fried eggs and toasts.

00:09:59: And something to spread on it.

00:10:01: everyone will be able to share from very young age since they were born because no TV in the background or radio just family sitting together before nighttime.

00:10:14: we would always read books for kids.

00:10:17: so I read the entire Auri Potter series twice One to the first kids and then, there is like a five years gap.

00:10:27: So reading books and having family time And also sharing our own dilemma Our own issues what's on our mind as parents?

00:10:38: before October sevens tourism in Prapano after that As a peacemaker always sharing dilemmas failures success.

00:10:49: So that's education for me, it started at home.

00:10:52: It sounds like a teacher's dream I have to say because in school these days is the big topic.

00:11:02: on one hand there are lots of pressure regarding education and about outsourcing stuff into schools around this world And we know even if institutions are to blame for a lot of things and teachers are parts of in institutions, Of course.

00:11:24: In some way at least there is also A lot of thing that have to do with society And in general end with every person in the Society as you mentioned before That you become associate person in school As they ideal and realize that this also means to participate, how you want to approach the society in these world and what you just talked about.

00:11:48: In my years as a teacher I was like yes thank you!

00:11:52: I wasn't

00:11:53: saying it too please you

00:11:54: but

00:11:55: give me an honest answer.

00:11:57: You deliver very strong message already by title of your book.

00:12:03: It's like a statement.

00:12:04: You say the future is peace, it's not.

00:12:07: we are on the way or its becoming... Of course in the future.

00:12:12: but there isn't this piece.

00:12:15: and for me while I was hearing the title and reading book i also saw that The Book has alot of educational topics as well which also are educational topic between two of you as friends in developing your relationship or reflecting on your relationships, but of course also as messages to the readers.

00:12:41: I think before we go a little bit deeper into that it would be necessary for the listeners like even if you describe it in the book and I don't want to spoil that too much.

00:12:56: No, no!

00:12:56: It's okay... I think its important here a little bit.

00:12:59: how are your two got together?

00:13:01: And How did came into this book?

00:13:04: Sure So.

00:13:05: Aziz is Palestinian born & raised in East Jerusalem under Israeli occupation.

00:13:13: When Aziz was ten years old his older brother Taiseer was eighteen years old.

00:13:18: His brother was arrested from home.

00:13:20: It was first in Tifada early nineties and he was tortured.

00:13:25: In the Israeli, I see it was tortured in the Israeli prison released after a year suffering from internal injury and dying few weeks After.

00:13:36: for eight years Aziz as a young kid then youth in East Jerusalem Was involved in their youth Fatah movement writing leaflets going to demonstration being shot by Israeli police, IDF forces throwing rocks on Israeli cars.

00:13:58: and only when Aziz was eighteen he realized that in order to be able to fulfill his potential as a human being someone who lives in Jerusalem.

00:14:10: He must learn Hebrew.

00:14:11: so at the age of eighteen went to Ulpan where usually Jewish immigrants go study Hebrew And that was his first encounter ever with Israeli Jew.

00:14:22: That treated him as equal, human being and it brought into a transformation within him realizing we should not differentiate ourselves by Israelis versus Palestinians Muslims vs Jews immigrants vs native people.

00:14:42: if there is any division between those who believe in justice equality and dignity, those who don't yet.

00:14:51: At the age of eighteen he became a peacemaker.

00:14:53: He joined the Palestinian-Israeli bereaved family.

00:14:57: A forum was the co-chairman then started a tour company with an innovative concept, dual narrative tours that is being led by Israeli and a Palestinian tour guide.

00:15:12: Those two guides sharing their narratives or apart from each other in the Holy Land between Israel and Palestine.

00:15:23: And we met briefly back in two thousand fourteen at the Abraham Hostel Jerusalem, I also tourism and travel entrepreneur so he started a number of tourism initiatives for my guest house in Nazareth then Jesus Trail I can trail in the Galilee.

00:15:39: and then the Abram Hostel and tours.

00:15:41: And three days after October seven, Aziz sent me a message offering his condolences and saying that he's standing with my family in the most tragic moment.

00:16:00: That can never happen to anyone!

00:16:02: It was literally like a hand reaching out saving from drowning into an ocean of sorrow & pain.

00:16:10: it is not metaphor.

00:16:11: I was literally drowning in pain and loss.

00:16:16: And, the last three years we've been working together.

00:16:19: We opened The Ted Convention In Vancouver, it was one of the most popular TED Talks Of The Year.

00:16:27: We met Pope Francis in an amazing gathering, peace-gathering... ...in Verona Italy also in year two thousand twenty four.

00:16:37: We were the first Israeli Palestinian Peace Activists to meet Pope Leo.

00:16:41: few weeks after it was appointed, we carried the Olympic torch of the Winter Olympics games also in Verona again.

00:16:50: first time ever Israeli and Palestinian carrying the Olympic Torch.

00:16:54: And we co-authored The Future is Peace.

00:16:56: yeah so I think i answered.

00:16:58: you know?

00:16:59: Yes!

00:16:59: I can listen to it like forever even if... Of course I write the book and I watch the TED Talks still Always different to hear it from the people themselves.

00:17:11: And also in this moment, of course we can't speak for these but as you two are working so closely together You have a lot knowledge.

00:17:22: Sure We actually can speak For each other Many things about what I'm saying.

00:17:29: I am using Aziz words and Versversa.

00:17:33: This is why i was saying We're one When sharing One vision And we are sharing one future and it's not just for Aziz, but also for Israel and Palestine.

00:17:45: I think it's really important because you know, said before difficult questions have to be asked.

00:17:51: And i'm sure that if people would see even on the podcast when I will promote it and they will say That I am just talking with you.

00:18:00: People are gonna react to it Because people react To everything especially around this topic.

00:18:05: So This again is why I think It so important to point out that you two are so synchronized in your work, and do have such an insane journey together also through the book.

00:18:16: That the listeners have to know...

00:18:19: Sure!

00:18:19: And it's also hard to explain how busy we are.

00:18:25: We're stressed all over.

00:18:28: So like two days ago Aziz his bass is now in US American wife.

00:18:34: he was a professor at Middle East History in a private university, so they are there.

00:18:41: But it is also traveling all over and we're giving so many interviews but... And so many events online public.

00:18:51: So we were also covering for each other.

00:18:53: three days ago There was the Hamptons Book Festival.

00:18:56: as this one's here.

00:19:00: We cannot do everything together And I'm sure Aziz will be very happy to interview you for your podcast in the future.

00:19:08: Do we want to tell us a little bit about The Journey that is described and with it, like this structure of the

00:19:17: book?

00:19:17: Yes!

00:19:17: I would love that.

00:19:18: Maybe then i'll finish why we titled It The Future Is Peace.

00:19:23: So because both guided thousands of tours or groups in Israel and Palestine.

00:19:30: We've decided to structure the future of this piece as a tour, an eight-day shared tour, share journey across the Holy Land where both Aziz and I are guiding.

00:19:41: basically the readers on these... On their journey we're using our both voices.

00:19:46: sometimes Aziz is leading the group Sometimes I'm leading The Readers And at the end of each chapter we are sharing our reflection of the day together in one voice.

00:19:57: And it's an eight days journey, each day is a chapter and every chapter is taking place at different locations.

00:20:04: We're starting with the cemetery of Kibbutz Niram The same kibbutze my grandparents established back in nineteen forty three.

00:20:14: My father was born when they raised me and my three sisters and my young brother and myself where I put the remains for my parents on the footsteps of my grandparents' grave.

00:20:26: So that's where we started, The Journey and then from there were going to Netiva As-Zaraa Where My Parents took their final breath On October seventh early morning.

00:20:40: And just From There We're Speaking To Aziz Friends Abdel Rahim Who Evacuated His Wife & Kids From Gaza After October Seventh.

00:20:50: The second days is Jaffa Tel Aviv, the Palestinian national movement and the Zionist movements.

00:20:57: We go to El Azaria as his childhood hometown.

00:21:01: in sharing this story of his family.

00:21:04: why how they moved from Hebron to Jerusalem.

00:21:09: one day on the old city of Jerusalem two-day off at West Bank.

00:21:13: occupation oppression.

00:21:15: One day in Nazareth a city on the edge of hope where I opened the Fauzi-Azarin, The First Guesthouse Ever in Gold City back in two thousand and five.

00:21:25: The eight days is in the Galilee And the epilogue Is In The Future.

00:21:29: As the journey goes from one day to next chapter we are transforming despair into hope trauma into healing and revenge into reconciliation.

00:21:43: We acknowledge we recognize the trauma but we are transferring them through our own personal stories.

00:21:52: We share from people who were meeting along the journey, and stories of Greek mythology, from holy books, Old Testament, Bible, Koran... And places around the world that we have been inspired by.

00:22:08: From Rwanda, North Ireland, South Africa & others….

00:22:13: At the end we're reaching peace!

00:22:15: And what we learned in our personal journey and can learn from history is that all conflicts end at the end.

00:22:24: It's not a wishful thinking, it's nothing.

00:22:27: I thought this was an historical fact!

00:22:33: and this podcast is a proof of that, then hopefully we'll talk about it soon.

00:22:47: And reconciliation not only possible but in order to achieve reconciliation you must invest in it.

00:22:55: so when we tell the book The Future Is Peace It's Not A Statement.

00:23:00: Its A Proof.

00:23:01: Now We Just Need To Prove It.

00:23:04: This Is The Agency That Each One Of Us If They Are Your Students If they are your fellow teachers, if there are policymakers.

00:23:14: So the future is peace and also an injection of agency.

00:23:18: We're really accountable for the past but we're also accountable to the future And have the agency change the future.

00:23:27: so this is a mission our work and we manifested it into their future in space.

00:23:35: One thought that came through my head now when you were saying that all conflicts in the end, they will be solved is of course a question like on which cost.

00:23:49: That it's coming up and I think in political discussions or if people are very sad then frustrated about this situation?

00:23:57: This an important question thats' coming up And also... The fact there.. A lot times especially in politics the instrumentalization.

00:24:10: What politics are doing is that they, like former conflicts or formal wars often used to...

00:24:21: To polarize?

00:24:22: To spread hate and fear?

00:24:24: Exactly!

00:24:25: And especially when it comes to the Middle East I mean also talking as a German.

00:24:30: i see what's happening in Germany from discourse-wise From all sides regarding Germany's role.

00:24:37: looking at the conflicts here in this situation, it's super polarized of course and also the former violent history has a part.

00:24:51: In The View Of Papers.

00:24:53: so continuities are there...in the way And narratives forming new conflict or forming status quo like Just.

00:25:05: also, you can mention now the Holocaust.

00:25:07: You could mention the Nakuba or in general the violent history of people that are part of conflicts today.

00:25:18: off course.

00:25:19: So how are you discussing this fact when what you just said?

00:25:25: Okay so there a few angles perspective.

00:25:28: I will try and then but feel very comfortable to shift me.

00:25:34: I'll tell you the lesson i learned after working in Nazareth for twenty-one years at the year of two thousand and five,i was nearly thirty years old living all my life in Israel .I suddenly realized that I know about indigenous community native people all over the world.

00:25:52: ,I knew about the Maori New Zealand Aborigines in Australia Sharpa another Native People In Asia In South America, but I had not even one Palestinian friend.

00:26:29: mental walls and physical wall, like the world that was shadowing my parents' house.

00:26:35: They were living only two hundred meters from their border with Gaza.

00:26:38: And I realized if I continue to live within this ignorance it's leading to fear.

00:26:46: Fear is leading to hate.

00:26:48: When we hate someone We can do horrible things for each other.

00:26:51: So i wanted to orbit gates in those walls To build bridges Overcome those barriers of ignorance, or fear...of hate.

00:26:59: So I decided to use tourism as a tool and that's how i opened the guesthouse in Nazareth The Fauzi Azarin.

00:27:08: And after walking in Nazaret for twenty years I learned That the first step in reaching a shared society A shared future is listen Is knowing the other side.

00:27:18: narrative Not to argue not to disagree.

00:27:21: Even if I do disagree it's not good reason enough To start a debate, or an argument just to listen and acknowledge and recognize that there is another narrative.

00:27:43: That's the first courageous step.

00:27:46: each one of us as individuals but also as collectives can choose my general approach for conflicts, for debates.

00:28:00: And now I will use the lesson.

00:28:02: we learned and all were given by Pope Francis when we met him at the Arena de Pache in Verona For two-and-a-half hours.

00:28:10: he was speaking about important of a conflict that we civilization evolves through conflict.

00:28:18: We should not erase conflict between the conflict and ourself because there are only two places without conflicts.

00:28:30: Cemetery is a dictatorship, but we humanity... Mankind have their own creatures on planet Earth that can choose to solve a conflict through dialogue not for war and bloodshed.

00:28:45: so this is the divine part This what makes us who We Are And we need use these powers and also acknowledge the responsibility that comes with this power.

00:28:59: So from that understanding, knowing we're not going to agree about what happened in the past We are NOT gonna reach agreement on whats happening now.

00:29:13: How to call whats happening in Gaza?

00:29:15: To call it a war A justified War?

00:29:18: To Call It a Genocide?

00:29:20: To Call it a War of Revenge?

00:29:21: We Are Not Gonna Agree Each one, if you choose to call it this way I respect for that and I respect others to call differently.

00:29:31: Can we agree on stopping?

00:29:35: To stop the bloodshed!

00:29:36: So let's reach that agreement And from there ok lets move forward.

00:29:41: how can we stop it?

00:29:42: How can create a shared future based on values that will be living?

00:29:49: And what are those values?

00:29:51: So I'm moving the discussion into values, not to statements.

00:29:56: Not you started You're to blame.

00:29:59: so this is where i am taking a discussion.

00:30:02: Do you believe in equality?

00:30:15: In it, I tell you okay.

00:30:19: We cannot be partnered because we are living in two different polars not German and Israeli Not a pro-Israel, pro-Palestine A polar system that is based on values.

00:30:32: if You don't believe in equality dignity.

00:30:35: So we can have partner.

00:30:37: so your welcome anytime to join me.

00:30:39: i'm staying there in this moral stand moral values of humanity And you're always welcome to join Me even If so far, you choose different set of values and looking into the future.

00:30:54: We cannot bring justice in to the past.

00:30:58: we can not no one can justify The six million Jews that were killed murdered during the Holocaust.

00:31:05: who cannot bring Justice to them?

00:31:09: all Israelis and Palestinians, Jews and Muslims, Christians that died through under the years of conflict.

00:31:21: We cannot bring justice to them but we can create a just future for all those fourteen million who are living in the Holy Land nowadays.

00:31:29: So do you want to partner with me?

00:31:32: With us And bring this Just Future into reality?

00:31:36: so always focusing on the future and human values and creating partnership?

00:31:43: Yeah, I think if you created this base maybe This is something that's also going wrong in a lot of conversations.

00:31:52: That You are not clear about these Fundament of values or Conversation that you may be need to have first Before you can talk about.

00:32:03: for example It's learning About mechanisms and dynamics of power And about hierarchies which Are there?

00:32:10: Which are existing but it needs to come with a common ground that you built before, because I think in lots of times also in political education.

00:32:21: You learn about the inequalities first without having division...

00:32:27: Of quality?

00:32:28: Yeah!

00:32:28: And this is creating a lot of anger and it's understandable that the anger there creates more conflict and polarization than setting these grounds first, to have something to refer back too.

00:32:45: Also in your conversation and so this is why I think also it has a lot of like educational value as well because you know As i said at the beginning before we started recording I said that I Started the podcast.

00:33:03: or we started the podcast Because We realized That there's A Lot Of Topics Which are not Discussed In School And we have to do with that, but it's not enough just talk about these topics and learn them without setting this ground.

00:33:25: So the book is for everyone to read.

00:33:28: We've got messages from parents who use audio books when they take their kids out of kindergarten And of course educators and amazing authors, public figures that really endorse the future is peace.

00:33:48: It's not an easy reading!

00:33:54: our chip of living here in Israel, Palestine and the region.

00:33:59: We discussed what's happening in Gaza October sevens at Israeli hostages.

00:34:05: we don't sense though...we do not ignore any hard reality or very painful past but focus into future.

00:34:14: We focused on creating a shared vision for everyone who lives there.

00:34:19: Through this book we learned about ourselves and about humanity.

00:34:25: And for me, when many people ask if it's on interviews or just people in the streets is really Palestinian and others OK.

00:34:34: so what should we do now?

00:34:37: We got you!

00:34:38: You are inspiring by choosing forgiveness and creating hope and opposite action.

00:34:46: What should be done now?

00:34:49: My answer is very clear.

00:34:51: First We need to dream of the utopian future for Israeli and Palestinian that are living here, just to dream about it.

00:35:04: Because dreaming is the most important field for humanity.

00:35:07: this we also tend to forget too many times.

00:35:11: It's the field of dreaming where we can change humanity.

00:35:14: Its not a political field.

00:35:16: its unfortunately not even through education ,its only in the fields of dreams that we can change humanity.

00:35:24: And this is our superpower, the option to choose dialogue and not war.

00:35:31: those are superpowers.

00:35:32: let's use them!

00:35:33: Let us just give extremists their ability to dream about ethnic cleansing or supremacy based on ethnicity or religion or bloodshed People who believe in equality, indignity and shared acknowledgement and recognition Reconciliation and healing.

00:35:55: let us also be courageous and brave enough to dream.

00:35:58: And Germany was one of the founding nations of the EU only six founding nation.

00:36:04: I think you keep forgetting it that once Only seventy five years ago You had a very powerful vision To prevent the next war to take all the borders down.

00:36:18: To unite those who just say, you know a day before an year ago killed millions among each other.

00:36:27: and now I think this lesson of the EU Of taking the walls down in order to achieve security To celebrate humanity it's been forgotten.

00:36:40: And once again you are saying European but humanity.

00:36:45: We start investing again in building walls.

00:36:48: And where we are building walls, we're creating a monster on the other side.

00:36:52: that's also... That is proven history!

00:36:55: Walls never can defend and it goes through human civilization for Ardianus wall at Roman time to Chinese wall.

00:37:06: I keep forgetting the walls of barriers between France and Germany.

00:37:13: First World Second World War And it's God, definitely the same in Israel.

00:37:19: Worlds never protect and my parents are evidence of that too unfortunately.

00:37:24: We must invest in reconciliation.

00:37:27: we must invest In shared values to celebrate those values.

00:37:32: But if you'll stop investing in them Stop investing in dialogues Just blaming just calling The other side a monster We're making ourself into a monster.

00:37:44: And then for me, maybe one of the most important parts in the future is peace.

00:37:51: The most fundamental lesson I learned was when we were at the Jaffa port and there's an ancient Andromeda rock.

00:38:00: We started talking about who was Andromedda?

00:38:03: She was sacrificed by her parents to save the city from the monster of the sea.

00:38:11: Then she was saved by Presseus.

00:38:14: In order to save her, Reseus beheaded the Gorgona Medusa.

00:38:20: And by Greek mythology everyone who was looking in the eyes of Gorgono Medusa is becoming a stone.

00:38:27: and then when they came from the monster, Rseus showed their eyes off the Medusa... ...and turned it into a stone.

00:38:37: But let's go deeper.

00:38:39: Who was Gorgonna Medusa?

00:38:40: She wasn't born as a monster on a remote island, she was a Greek lady who devoted her life at the temple of Athens.

00:38:53: and then she was raped by Poseidon.

00:38:56: The father of Precious, her trauma... Her pain never healed not taken care off or hurt.

00:39:05: She was cursed by Athens to become the Gragona Medusa.

00:39:12: We want to break this myth that if we look at the monster eye, it will be coming into a stone.

00:39:17: This is exactly opposite.

00:39:20: in real life The only way to turn the monster back into human Is by looking her in the eye Listening for pain Feeling here Hearing your story And then she'll become a human again.

00:39:33: But even more important Will became human again.

00:39:37: Each one of us has potential To become Gorgona Medusa to become a terrorist, to be a Nazi.

00:39:46: To become a genocider.

00:39:48: each one of us has the potential to become one but also as an angel.

00:39:57: it's upto us to choose.

00:39:59: and even though if we were or are still monsters We can humanize ourselves!

00:40:05: And we're sharing in future peace that many times those who signed peace treaties the day before they were committing war crimes.

00:40:15: So it's not about eliminating government or assessing I think, leaders of those dark monstrous regime.

00:40:27: It is by humanizing them By dialoguing and transforming them so that where we need to focus our energy nothing hate Nothing blaming but in dialogue not to wait for war to erupt.

00:40:43: War is a failure of humanity, it's the disease we create ourselves!

00:40:48: It isn't a comment that comes from the sky or tsunami…it isn' t just a volcano...we created this for ourself and in the same way can we create it?

00:40:57: We can prevent it.

00:40:59: This is the lesson, these are values or teachings which should all act upon And doesn't matter if you're still at high school, kindergarten teacher, educator, peacemakers or policymakers.

00:41:17: One of my friends who was also in the podcast a while ago she wrote a book about polarization and one statement she claims a lot is that you have to be capable of acknowledging maybe even before just seeing your own shadows, their own shadows within yourself and to realize that you are not automatically... it sounds so even simple but it's not that simple in the end.

00:41:49: To realise that you're not automatically on the good side just because within this is what you feeling?

00:41:56: And to start dealing with these and to start realising I have these parts in myself.

00:42:05: It's like what you just said, we have the potential and every direction as human beings in us... And we need to start working with it!

00:42:13: I think this is a huge part of how to learn to acknowledge feelings within yourself for example but also then within others connected through perspectives carrying and that creates sometimes dilemma situations.

00:42:36: There's multiple truths at the same time, it is very hard to accept if you are working around with your own truth... ...and have to face

00:42:47: them.

00:42:49: Exactly!

00:42:49: And many times people argue about their other side narrative.. ..and they want to break or erase those two silences into silence.

00:43:00: part of the mainstream German policymaker that completely erased the Palestinian narrative.

00:43:08: It's not existing and it is very difficult for Palestinians to get visa, come visit or speak in Germany.

00:43:16: so when you are raising someone identity-narrative and taking only one side.

00:43:28: half of the truth.

00:43:29: there are multi layers.

00:43:31: By choosing a side, we are definitely speaking now Israel-Palestine.

00:43:37: We're choosing one side where ensuring the conflict will continue because there is another individual and other country that would choose the other side?

00:43:46: We must chose peace!

00:43:49: We must choose the peacemaker and invest in peace.

00:43:53: for example... Yeah let's go politics.

00:43:58: I think one of your cabinet members came recently to Israel and support, he was standing or speaking today Israeli government.

00:44:08: Now it's the same Israeli Government that is not allowing a parent-cerical, bereaved family forum from going into schools.

00:44:18: we are banned form going through schools but the German Embassy supporting the summer camp.

00:44:30: So you are, what's the word?

00:44:34: It is being hypocritical.

00:44:38: This is hypocrisy!

00:44:41: Saying or stating it was your cancer when he was just elected... He said I'm standing with Israel.

00:44:50: Standing with Israel to which extent?

00:44:54: Okay, Israel is doing a now ethnically cleansing in Gaza.

00:44:58: Now, seventy percent of the Gaza Strip is within Israel.

00:45:04: Zero Palestinians!

00:45:05: So to what extent situation you will stand with Israel?

00:45:11: If Israel will ethnically cleanse ninety percent of Gaza?

00:45:14: Ninety-nine percent?

00:45:17: Hundred percent of

00:45:17: Gaza?!

00:45:18: Will you still be standing with Israel and go the same way as West Bank?

00:45:23: so if your are standing with someone no matter what he's doing Just based on feelings, memories regrets you have from the past.

00:45:36: this is not being morally right.

00:45:38: This isn't a moral statement and human value or humanity.

00:45:44: It's not celebrating human values of reconciliation equality dignity.

00:45:51: So I think there are two countries that can bring an end to Israeli-Palestinian conflict Germany, because of your history role and standing with Israel for seventy-nine years.

00:46:10: And the US!

00:46:12: Now the U.S is unpredictable with the current administration but from Germany as one leading nation in the EU Because you can choose To start investing in Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation process, but you choose not to and I'm nothing to blame.

00:46:34: I'm just stating it as a fact.

00:46:36: You chose now too do it?

00:46:37: You choose to stand with Israel no matter what and As long as this is will be your choice.

00:46:44: You are forgetting your own legacy.

00:46:46: You're forgetting the lessons that you learned after The Second World War.

00:46:53: you forget the importance of establishment, international organization from UN to ICC.

00:47:01: So if Israeli prime minister has full impunity for committing war crime then we are basically breaking the values that we included in Germany and Jewish people took after the Holocaust And we're breaking those values.

00:47:22: We are jeopardizing our future.

00:47:25: We are not jeopardizing just the Israelis and Palestinians, we're jeopardizing the future of us Germany as a liberal democracy.

00:47:33: We are jeopardizing The Future Of The EU!

00:47:37: We Are Jepordising The Future of Europe And Humanity.

00:47:41: So we need to go back To The Core.

00:47:44: What Values We Live Upon?

00:47:48: This Is The Question.

00:47:49: Each German If he's in school, if is a teacher or a policymaker or politician should ask herself what are the values that we believe and act upon?

00:48:02: It brings me to this same friend who was also journalist.

00:48:06: And she saw at times saying these other questions too.

00:48:10: as to which extent?

00:48:12: What do you mean by this?

00:48:14: What does your definition of not just go the statements, after-statements and not looking behind it.

00:48:26: What's guiding you?

00:48:27: what are your thoughts on this statement that is missing in a lot of political talks

00:48:34: or

00:48:34: statements?".

00:48:35: So I think again start asking those questions if they're in your classroom –what values do Germany have?

00:48:45: What value does our communities have?

00:48:50: on or are inspired to live upon.

00:48:53: And do we exercise those values also in our international relationship, including especially with Israel and the Jewish people?

00:49:04: My expectation from the German government after October sevens is that it would be a true friend of Israel which you failed because if they were really good friends add too much alcohol and I'm entering my car, you'll take the car keys from me.

00:49:26: You will drive...you will make sure that I arrive home

00:49:30: safely.".

00:49:32: And after October seventh Israel, the state of Israel lost its conscience!

00:49:37: Lost his conscience?

00:49:40: It was so traumatized in so much pain and suffering that allowed it to do what he's doing now in Gaza, Lebanon bringing destruction to so many villages.

00:49:57: In the West Bank and I would expect Germany be a good friend put limits conditions borders do its support.

00:50:06: it's exactly like kids if we have no borders If someone is in class will just get mad And if you'll put no borders It's gonna ruin everything for everyone.

00:50:19: So when we don't have borders, there is no accountability.

00:50:24: If it's as kids or as nations then its leading to a mass destruction.

00:50:31: and this exactly what happening?

00:50:32: And It can go much worse Much worse!

00:50:36: This why we need again To go back the foundation of values that bring us together As humanity not just Israelis & Germans Jews & others the values of humanity that we want to live upon.

00:50:52: And it will happen, this is a historical fact!

00:50:55: It'll happen.

00:50:57: and the question's yes in what price?

00:50:59: How many lives would be lost?

00:51:01: so I believe were already lost enough To reach that future?

00:51:07: but eh...it needs action.

00:51:10: We need to act ,we cannot just wait for it to happen.

00:51:12: .We have to act.

00:51:15: Yes, and also you are describing very honestly how much you need each other in this.

00:51:20: Not only by I don't know some outside power that will put your borders but also by a reaching hand... By the message these sent to you where he didn't know what would happen if not

00:51:34: Yeah!

00:51:35: And by empathy.

00:51:36: But showing empathy To which human being?

00:51:38: Not an empty that is subject to ethnicity or to nation is from my side, so I will empathize pain and suffering.

00:51:50: Empathy that's spread through all humanity, to all creatures...to everyone!

00:51:56: And it starts small?

00:51:57: Exactly

00:51:58: in a relationship like...

00:52:00: Yeah but you can create huge difference, huge differences that change the world.

00:52:06: Thank You so much.

00:52:07: what can i say in the end of?

00:52:11: before?

00:52:11: that I was like every but

00:52:13: you have also another and other thing that i would ask you to do.

00:52:16: You go first

00:52:18: because literally this is what i'm doing now peacemaking, circle of friends, being like evaluated.

00:52:30: I don't have time...I don't drink coffee!

00:52:31: i don't go to a beer if i do coffee..i call it coffee for peace and inviting many people.

00:52:37: what i just realized is that since because im learning so much about peace agreement piece accords successful failures.

00:52:48: the two weeks before peace sign many times no one believe its gonna happen If it's a Sa'adat visit, the president of Egypt who waged war surprise over Israel in nineteen seventy three and visiting Israel.

00:53:04: In nineteen seventy seven two weeks before his visit there was this poll within Israeli discourse.

00:53:11: Seventy-two percent were against negotiation not against land swap or peace but against negotiations stating that Egypt only want to erase state of Israel.

00:53:23: What many pro-Israeli now, okay?

00:53:26: Or the Israeli government will tell you what Hamas wants to do.

00:53:32: It was the same things two weeks before Sadat's visit.

00:53:36: and then he is arriving And the children of Israel are waiting for him in Bersheva Jerusalem Tel Aviv and Haifa with two flags on their hands The flag of Israel Of course!

00:53:45: And the flag of Isreal biggest enemy And Menachem Begin who just elected to become a prime minister.

00:53:51: but Menachem Begin was a wanted terrorist by the British mandate.

00:53:55: He was commander of the Irgun, a terrorist militia that is in charge and accountable for the deaths of civilians Palestinians, Brits & Jews.

00:54:06: And he's welcoming Saadat and says we can prevent next war But We cannot prevent peace.

00:54:13: This will definitely happen.

00:54:15: If you are sitting now together in Berlin today The wall was falling.

00:54:19: I'll tell you Few hours, few hours we can go to the other side for a beer.

00:54:25: You tell him Mars you are crazy!

00:54:27: Two weeks before the genocide in Rwanda ended someone will say...will tell you Someone that Rwandar gonna be the most stable country In Africa?

00:54:37: Will think he is insane.

00:54:39: and it goes on And On What It Means That We Are Always two Weeks Away From Peace.

00:54:47: Who Should Not Talk About?

00:54:50: not in generation or lifetime, we are always two weeks away from peace.

00:54:55: And my ask to you on E-Call and all the listeners what can we do now?

00:55:02: In the next two weeks make peace happen!

00:55:06: So this is a time frame that should be focused and there's so many things each one of us could do.

00:55:13: Advocacy amplifying sharing dreaming about just an elastic piece between Israelis and Palestinians.

00:55:24: So now you're a little bit stole what I wanted to say?

00:55:28: No, but it's very good because in the end we can still add something else.

00:55:33: since The podcast is about school even if its outdated i am asking the guests To give homework for everyone who is listening like me Because im also listening at this moment But also everybody else who was listening.

00:55:48: This already works.

00:55:50: No, but I have a good one.

00:55:53: I'll give an homework for the students and then something also maybe for the adults.

00:56:00: listeners write in essay of five hundred words.

00:56:04: describe a just and elasting piece between Israel and Palestine that is based on the values Of equality and dignity shared acknowledgement and recognition Reconciliation and healing security and safety for both people, for all people.

00:56:21: Write this vision!

00:56:23: This is for students For the adults.

00:56:26: please share messages of peace or reconciliation within your network colleagues family friends headmasters policy makers politician to know that when we are silent others speaking in our name.

00:56:45: so be very loud and Soon.

00:56:49: when we solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it's basically gonna... We're going to retake the vows.

00:56:56: We made his nation and his people within their reconciliation agreement between the state of Israel and the Republic German republic And every day we should take those vows again and again because when we forget our history Our shared story We are jeopardizing our future.

00:57:22: Thank you so much!

00:57:26: Thanks.