00:00:00: It is one of our first time to go through the social or other communities, others than our families.

00:00:09: And then you will face acceptance and you will faced dealing with people who don't know that they are trying to fight for their environment inside this also very strange environment to get new friends and also, to get in touch with different people.

00:00:35: Yes they could be at our age but we came out from different families or backgrounds.

00:00:44: At school you can find people on a different stage.

00:00:48: Some are very evil some are very kind some are friendly some not aggressive.

00:00:55: something like that.

00:00:56: You're supposed go through all this.

00:01:20: So,

00:01:20: hi and welcome.

00:01:23: Now it's going to be a mix of little bit German and English.

00:01:27: today It is the second episode that I am doing in Englisch so its relatively

00:01:32: new

00:01:32: for me But we will try!

00:01:37: So this is Kleine Pause Podcast.

00:01:42: It's Encounters in the Tea Kitchen.

00:01:45: This is the title underneath, The Kleine Pause Title and I think we can call this an encounter now even if it's via Zoom!

00:01:57: It really...I would like to thank you Nicole for your interest about literature ,about my work & about my book And what you are doing is great.

00:02:10: Thank You

00:02:12: Thank you for being here and I think we will start with you saying who are a little bit so our listeners would also know who is sitting in front of me right now.

00:02:23: Okay, I am Stella Gaitanu from South Sudan And i have been all my life in Sudan.

00:02:37: come to Germany.

00:02:40: I was in a scholarship by Penn, uh, Deutschland.

00:02:50: Right?

00:02:50: I had excited program for three years.

00:02:53: now i am here.

00:02:56: yes it is.

00:02:57: yeah three years has stopped.

00:02:59: It's just for buy as those are said and Now I'm a refugee or I seek asylum.

00:03:08: Now I try my best to integrate and am working also, everything is

00:03:21: fine for me now.

00:03:22: Thank you for sharing that!

00:03:24: And usually in the beginning of conversations we make it a little bit transparent how we got together.

00:03:33: why are sitting here... This time because your book.

00:03:39: I have it here next to me.

00:03:40: Oh, thank you!

00:03:43: The German title is Edo's Golden Sleschen.

00:03:46: It just came out in Kiwi

00:03:49: and

00:03:51: a few months ago right?

00:03:52: Like i don't have exact... Yeah exactly

00:03:54: yeah.

00:03:55: In May

00:03:57: Yes, and this is how we came together because I saw the book.

00:04:01: And I thought that Sudan is a topic that's really underrepresented in lot of these courses... ...and also literature.

00:04:11: here in Germany you don't read lots like at least not on mainstream.. ..I was excited to hear about it.

00:04:22: then i contacted Like I'm in contact with people from Kiwi and I said, I would love to have you on the podcast.

00:04:32: To share a little bit about your book and your right?

00:04:36: Your life as a writer but also your Life As A Human Rights Activist.

00:04:43: .I say it now You can talk if you're calling yourself an activist or not because i know that People are very specific On this topic lot of times.

00:04:54: Yeah, this is how we managed to have these podcast dates and I'm really happy about it.

00:05:02: Since this is a podcast about school usually... ...I start with asking people what comes into their mind when they think of schools?

00:05:15: And maybe in our conversation just before we started… It's not that obvious!

00:05:21: to form this bridge, but I would still ask you what comes into your mind right now.

00:05:28: It can be something very present.

00:05:30: it can also be something that you refer from your past and life.

00:05:35: What is the first association or thought when you hear these questions?

00:05:45: Yes!

00:05:46: Thank You again for having me here.

00:05:50: I'm happy to be here, I am honored.

00:05:53: And yes when i hear the questions about this school...I can say that we are all or majority of us who graduated from schools and how a school shapes our personality I don't know in my generation.

00:06:23: When i'm thinking about the school,I can say... ...i was traumatized when i come out from the school to go to university.

00:06:37: and uh the trauma maybe comes from how things like.

00:06:44: it is one of our first time to go through the social or do it in your communities, other than our families.

00:06:57: So and then you will face acceptance And you'll face dealing with people that don't know.

00:07:06: You are trying to fight Or just like create environment, inside this also very strange environment to get new friends and Also to get in touch with different people.

00:07:30: Yes They could be our age but they came out so from different families And from different backgrounds.

00:07:42: at school you can like find people in different states.

00:07:47: Some are very evil, some are very kind ,some are friendly .Some are not aggressive and something like that.

00:07:56: And you're supposed to go through all this alone as a child.

00:08:03: I am talking now ...like...in my country.

00:08:09: As a child i'm supposed to get through all of these alone Also with teachers those people, the other peoples who I don't know they are not my parents but i supposed to obey them.

00:08:27: sometimes in my country it is also scary because a teacher can harm you like when your not doing your duty maybe get some kind of punishment and something.

00:08:46: The relationship between students at school and the teachers, students within themselves.

00:08:54: It is always like a kind of trauma new environment And I suppose to face it alone come out somehow with personality At the end.

00:09:09: all this So how we can help?

00:09:16: the students also to absorb this experience.

00:09:22: Also, I want to say how like link school with books and because there is cool books or all these subjects it's something.

00:09:38: but i think literature philosophy can create a shape to create the personality of kids or students at school.

00:09:53: But I think that governments are focusing on creating employees, like overcoming work and keeping economy going.

00:10:07: but if We can lose a kind of personality that someone cannot be emotional intelligence or cannot be social intelligence.

00:10:20: So how we have the quality for human being, not the quality of employee?

00:10:27: Yeah this already has so many layers that I'm immediately thinking about because what you're mentioning is already also power dynamics, like inside of schools and with different groups that you may be confronted within school.

00:10:44: That somehow off course also representing or mirroring the Power Dynamics outside of school as a small society inside this society in some how which can Be very difficult Of course especially if you're facing, like... If you belong to a marginalized group or there's conflict in between groups.

00:11:13: Or something like that of course which is one thing I think.

00:11:19: of course in the country with a lot of crisis and even war In an unstable situation it's even more.

00:11:30: but general, it's always there.

00:11:34: It's just making it even more complicated or violent depending on the situation of the country?

00:11:42: Yes!

00:11:42: Of course.

00:11:43: and like if a mass of people migrate to this place for example in Sudan in another region.

00:12:02: And then the class, they are different in their teachers.

00:12:07: difference is languages and nobody like make you ready to be there?

00:12:16: Also other kids not really dealing with someone different from here the trauma become because if you see all of them They have a language, they have safety features and I am different.

00:12:36: And like there is also some people... Some children can be very evil Also like pulling them or make a laughing about themselves.

00:12:49: So from here you always may be able to have this kind of things that are not accepting yourself.

00:12:59: You can say, maybe I'm different.

00:13:01: But you cannot say that it's not like them.

00:13:08: So from here the self-acceptance is a wound in this time.

00:13:16: Yes totally!

00:13:18: The second layer when we were talking was question of what is actually the function over school inside the state.

00:13:29: This I think for a lot people, it's something that you don't think about too much because most of time even if off course this not and same everywhere around world.

00:13:41: but for allot of peoples schools just something there like part of a state, it's something normal.

00:13:49: It is the system exactly and I don't think that too many people like why would they especially if this situation?

00:13:58: Okay ish, let's say carefully and I'm not thinking.

00:14:03: Ah what actually?

00:14:05: Is the function of schools?

00:14:07: besides qualifying Let's say like use your name set you said the word employees And You can see it like in a more.

00:14:19: i don't know that.

00:14:20: lets say In this perspective from Germany That I am I grew up with is like for your own education, it's to find your position in life.

00:14:32: In this world too learn stuff.

00:14:35: and but i didn't think when i was younger... ...I didn't sing way to.

00:14:39: schools are also there to for example reproduce.. ..in some ways the status quo of a society or reproduce the values over society.

00:14:50: that's not something.... ten, they are thought okay I'm here to learn math or i'm here too learned.

00:14:58: I don't know whatever you're learning in school.

00:15:01: so this is like another layer of it that you already mentioned especially when it comes to these hierarchies and crises also violent and dangerous situations.

00:15:15: maybe schools can play a certain role.

00:15:18: Yes,

00:15:20: yes and school also can marginalize you.

00:15:23: Yeah of course.

00:15:24: And for example in Sudan before the cessation to Sudan In Sudan if we come through a gymnasium We have four subjects we suppose To succeed on them go to university.

00:15:47: If not If I fail, I suppose to repeat the year.

00:15:51: And those subjects are religion if it is Christianity or Islam and math Arabic...and what's that first one?

00:16:10: Yes like Arabic for example!

00:16:14: In Sudan people from South Sudan, Arabic it the pharise language or the mother tongue of people.

00:16:24: So many, many students from African group if they have their own languages are suffering this.

00:16:41: You know?

00:16:44: When we come to the gymnasium and they're supposed to succeed Arabic.

00:16:49: They are suffering, most of them couldn't do that.

00:16:54: so you can find few people from these areas who can get into the university.

00:17:03: but other people in those areas know better Arabic have a great chance to go to the University.

00:17:12: You see how it can play a role even development of some areas and most people or most of pupils, they can leave the school because there are challenges with this issue.

00:17:30: So you can find someone who gets to university, it could be doctors or engineers... And others that drop out from their schools Because this is one of the reasons, Of course it's not all.

00:17:46: This was also half can be in there.

00:17:55: Yeah at the bottom up to hierarchy off everything and this is can also make these.

00:18:04: You come find it is unbalanced in the community or in a society And they didn't want you change that.

00:18:12: there is no any policy to change that.

00:18:16: This is the country and you're supposed to do that, And from here it's become like when I'm supposed to go to university... ...I am supposed to learn Arabic very toughly!

00:18:28: From here i can move forward and be able to do other things.

00:18:35: Yes of course I prepared a little bit for our conversation wrote down the question to ask you about writing in Arabic, also coming from the south of Sudan.

00:18:50: So maybe this is a good moment for us start talking about your writing and Of course You can connect it a little bit through Your story.

00:18:59: I think every listener understand that in our conversation now or also this is not your job to explain like the whole situation of Sudan, but still I think we need a little bit of context from your story.

00:19:16: To dive more into other stories off your characters and how you build your book.

00:19:23: so maybe when start with why?

00:19:26: Is it even may be good starting point to ask you Like Why is It Even A Question Like, are you writing in Arabic because of what you just told me or is it something that you decided for a specific reason?

00:19:45: So maybe we can start with this to move the content.

00:19:50: Yes thank you also for these questions!

00:19:54: Writing in Arabic, sometimes it is strange for many people and somehow also like they make me think about why I am writing in Arabic while there are Sudanese writers who write in English but nobody asks them.

00:20:25: And i don't know.

00:20:29: It is like.

00:20:30: you are all the time being in risk, because my appearance.

00:20:37: Like an African woman writing Arabic it's stranger.

00:20:42: but if I'm writing English or French this normal.

00:20:47: so some kind of questions.

00:20:51: and i think Because people just need simple things, or to simplify this a person.

00:21:02: We are not simple at all and there is all the time layers of personality, layers of identities.

00:21:13: can someone have it?

00:21:16: And then my story is I am the daughter from Paris come originally from South Sudan and they displaced very earlier to the north part of Sudan, because South Sudan is not stable.

00:21:33: And then me and my siblings we are like get birthed all in...in the North Park of Sudan.

00:21:46: We got school there.

00:21:47: on all schools in Sudan also it's in Arabic Tom, we have our African language is Otoho.

00:21:59: We are talking with the family of Toho.

00:22:02: and then when you're going outside?

00:22:05: You are talking Arabic or Sudan dialect

00:22:08: Arabic

00:22:10: at school on books like reading all in their classic Arabic And that's why it has many layers like me can go through it, his daily or her daily life.

00:22:28: And you open the door and go to other languages from door-to-door.

00:22:34: We can switch that in our mind.

00:22:37: I think this kind of also... You could say intelligence for immigrant children.

00:22:46: It is not just Sudan but it's universal Because many children now, because this massive of migration.

00:22:54: Many children can go through the same experience.

00:22:57: maybe at home they speak Arabic or Turkish or Kurdish outside They can speak German and so have these capabilities always to go thru languages easily I hope to answer your

00:23:15: question.

00:23:16: Yeah, of course and i am already thinking that it's so interesting That a lot of topics that are specific Topics maybe for Sudan also in your book or specific realities can still translate To a lot Of other realities For people from like different regions.

00:23:38: It doesn't matter if we are talking about school or switching languages, or switching codes.

00:23:44: Or being able to and who isn't... And why?

00:23:49: With which kind of stories it is connected.

00:23:52: Many readers in Europe encounter Sudan primarily through wars, conflicts or news and maybe not literature.

00:24:07: What you're doing in your novel is showing a broader perspective like through characters.

00:24:21: I mean, it's three years.

00:24:22: Okay?

00:24:22: It's not just the last two months or something but somehow you were probably confronted with like... The view that people in Germany have on Sudan and the view that YOU have Or your characters have In your writings.

00:24:38: Can you talk a little bit about these two things Like how Sudan is most of the time encountered A SIN And what you maybe also want to bring with your books that can maybe be the same, but also different?

00:24:57: Yes.

00:25:00: The Sudanese News and Sudanese Literature are Sudanese news on Sudan as a life environment people in the cultural aspect of Sudan.

00:25:16: We all know that news are selective and they focus on this daily use to keep people like interested about the team, or things.

00:25:36: And it is quick this kind of repeating some word during reading news, and it's can do something like someone wants to plant a picture or an image in your mind set.

00:26:05: In your unconscious also mind.

00:26:08: so because This repetition is can give anyone an image that he cannot see any other things like, because the whole day this news come tens of times with repeated.

00:26:26: The same voice, the same words about the war and violent conflicts on all things they ignore totally that Sudan is a country rich off diversity, rich of people.

00:26:44: And also if someone asks why this conflict?

00:26:51: Even nobody can ask it is a war in Africa.

00:26:55: People are always like killing themselves so let them what we can do for them.

00:27:01: but What the root causes of these conflicts and who is feeding this conflict?

00:27:09: Nobody want to ask himself And I think literature can help people to understand this deeply, and also provide some kind of... Some people can get in touch with people in Sudan through empathy because they understand more.

00:27:41: relationship with characters in different literatures.

00:27:45: So, and I think literature can also like fill this gap between what then you said which is really very harsh And make people detach from the area make people rethink about what's behind this conflict.

00:28:15: Also, there is a little bit of paradox I think because especially if we are looking at Sudan it often called like an invisible war from Western perspective or German perspective?

00:28:31: It not something that you see in the news every day and as as a human rights activist or an activist, and that's also speaking out politically about this.

00:28:46: Isn't it sometimes for you also conflicting on the one hand?

00:28:53: You want to, as you just described through your literature and writing... ...to be capable of painting this broader picture.

00:29:01: To connect with the characters so that there are more perspectives than these war-perspectives.

00:29:11: On the other hand….

00:29:12: …you're now in a country which is maybe not talking enough about it at

00:29:22: all!

00:29:24: I think because also the war in Sudan is coming, the middle of many wars.

00:29:30: Many other wars and um... The other wars i think they.

00:29:34: it's more important that what has happened in Sudan And I am not agree with Invisible War or Ignored War in Sudan Because people knows What Is Going on in Sudan They just don't want to involve because they are busy with other worlds, which is very important for them economically or politically.

00:30:00: Or something like that what has happened in Sudan.

00:30:03: it's not harming anyone and I think this the reason why Sudan is not there often some media.

00:30:19: yes its unfortunate but also because people are overwhelmed by many negative news and why this kind of new supposed to be in the media, Germany.

00:30:38: People even didn't know where Sudan is.

00:30:44: so it's a decision And I think the world is going like that.

00:30:54: We can't change it, but i was really very lucky because during Sudan war my first book was out The End Loser Tagan .

00:31:06: zero.

00:31:07: and this booklet was a resource for information Because they had many readings around and people get interested about Sudan through my short stories.

00:31:27: And even in this book, I was talking about other world.

00:31:31: it is not about this war but the consequences are same.

00:31:36: then people gets... The audience who were there.

00:31:41: they got to discuss with me deeply about Sudan as you want know what's going on.

00:31:49: And I think this is one of the messages that Britishers can send, because yes it's literature but beneath it also a politics.

00:32:05: Because if we are not writers who cannot be politicians or act like politicians people politically aware about what is going on.

00:32:23: So let's dive a little bit into your book and talk about your characters, you are following different Here the stories, I say stories because it's more than one story.

00:32:44: Through their lenses in In The Beginning we are starting with a narrator which is A little bit closer to One character and later like unfolding the different characters.

00:32:59: You want to talk a little bit about how you decided which character will be part of of the story and how you decided to change their perspectives, because I think it's very interesting that we also have for example a strong female characters with a very strong feminist voice.

00:33:21: But there are men who talk about this decision!

00:33:28: Yes... When did i start?

00:33:33: This book?

00:33:34: I started in two thousand fifteen, sixteen and i wrote this the narrative part.

00:33:43: The thirty-three chapters.

00:33:47: And then I stopped writing.

00:33:52: No...I started it in..i don't know when.

00:33:59: Yes!

00:33:59: It is when South Sudan and Sudan get separated, I start this in this.

00:34:07: And then it's getting very tough for us and Sudan because we're supposed to go when we suppose like reset our situations Because you came a foreigner We are supposed to all back to South Sudan.

00:34:22: So It was a matter of survival mood.

00:34:26: so i stopped writing.

00:34:28: Then again i started in And yeah, I continue till it's out in twenty eighteen.

00:34:41: So the very three chapters are eroded at that time and then when I come again to write so i decide like...I felt that like the character said we need to tell our own story please!

00:34:58: We will use you just to write it.

00:35:03: So when I just surrendered to do that, it was really more flexible.

00:35:14: It is not tense or like...I don't feel like I am holding a burden of something.

00:35:33: and the character's differences even in ideas, their class, education.

00:35:43: And how this book can join someone like Lucy or someone like Jala who is really very elite and a lawyer.

00:35:56: And Lucy was a natural believer of something like that.

00:36:03: those two people and it is like contradiction between different women in the same page.

00:36:11: And one, like Peter who is really very masculine man his friend Marco who somehow not he has some kind of femininity also And it is like that and also the dialogue between South Sudan, North Sudan this relationship.

00:36:40: Like a character like Peter who is a South Sudanese raised up with family from the north part while there's huge conflict between south and norths on how they are seeing each other?

00:36:55: It's like space to bring all these contradictions in Sudan, people and everything.

00:37:09: People are still there.

00:37:10: they have families that create their own set of norms to be together support each other somehow just ignore what is going on politically.

00:37:28: Yeah, ignore and not ignore at the same time.

00:37:32: And

00:37:34: be aware about that.

00:37:35: but like they say yes this is really horrific what's going on But we are NOT going to make it to allow us to sabotage our life or Our relationship.

00:37:53: yeah We choose To be a family We choose to be there for each other, whatever is what's going on.

00:38:02: And also this conflict can come inside their relationship and it can make tension between

00:38:12: them.

00:38:13: Yeah!

00:38:15: It has a lot of dimensions through these things that you already mentioned like North-Souths gender... Topics, class topics.

00:38:26: And you also see the interconnection in between these different kind of dimensions that sometimes it's connected like class and gender can be connected for example but other things could connect to this big dimensional story through which I think is very interesting allows you what he said in the beginning to have this very specific view of a very specific context, but also make it something that is general human experience.

00:39:06: It doesn't matter where?

00:39:08: Yes!

00:39:11: I think one of my colleagues read this novel and she said... I don't know.

00:39:21: Whenever I read this book, I didn't think these people are

00:39:26: black.".

00:39:27: She said the character from.

00:39:29: in her mind they're white but it is really very interesting and she like feel guilt because she can imagine those people as Black.

00:39:45: for how she imagined that?

00:39:49: Maybe because it is not a story for black people, It's the human being stories.

00:39:56: It happens in Sudan and South Sudan but can be

00:40:03: also valid somewhere else.

00:40:04: I think that i can relate to this as well Because I thought about while reading And for me, one of the answers to this was also that.

00:40:17: This is part of colonialism or so because by the names you differentiate as a reader in between the people's.

00:40:27: So if there are European names You immediately create different picture In your head and how like colonialism also brings to the situation or brought.

00:40:44: Yeah,

00:40:45: and bring this a situation that also like manipulate the imagination of some people.

00:40:52: because me personally I was invited one of the... I don't know conferences And i was dealing in emails with already At some point when I said, I'm from South Sudan and she asked me why you are very Italian?

00:41:17: Because my name is Della Gaidonati.

00:41:19: It's totally Italian!

00:41:23: And this book also talks about how the missionaries change identity of African people like give them a religion and then set your name, if you need to be apart of this religion is supposed to change your name or have another name.

00:41:49: And so it is like people who are inside Sudan we know immediately Who Is From South?

00:41:59: and Who Is from North because majority Of South Sudanese People They Have European Names or African names, yeah.

00:42:10: And majority of people from North Sudan.

00:42:12: they have Arab names.

00:42:13: and so sometimes in the family like my family for example we there's three older ones that we have European name.

00:42:26: our sisters who are younger than me also have Arabic.

00:42:32: So it's like a mix of things, and that why?

00:42:36: in the beginning I said because we have to simplify things.

00:42:44: It is not simple.

00:42:46: Yeah!

00:42:48: And adding to this how easy for you now your book gets attention?

00:42:53: Because now its translated into German as you wrote almost ten years ago or more than ten when till it came out a little bit less than ten years.

00:43:06: So how is for you that its translated now?

00:43:09: and the situation, of course not exactly the same but as we already heard there's lot things to transfer from back then to already know?

00:43:21: To get this attention and speak about while living in Berlin why seeking asylum while writing from exile which is different perspective also than being in the place that you're writing about.

00:43:40: Yes, I can say because since two thousand eighteen i just also forgot the book and i forget many details of it now after its come out when i'm supposed to go through this novel again because I forget many, many of things.

00:44:04: and but i was in close also with my translators first translated to English.

00:44:12: And yes we like go through everything and second did translate it into Germanic Also Again!

00:44:22: Yes...I was really afraid a little bit.

00:44:28: It is scary to, because as you see the book it's very about local things in Sudan.

00:44:38: Intensity of cultural things and also touch kind of taboos that go through many things I think different I don't know.

00:45:01: Because many people, they said it is different kind of writing and i dont' how its different but...I wrote like that.

00:45:12: And the writer who is like go or forced to be somewhere else Or to go?

00:45:23: The very thing he thinks about he lost his audience or his readers.

00:45:31: For example, my readers are Sudanese at least if it is expanded in Arab region.

00:45:40: and then now there's other readers.

00:45:46: how someone who is not a Sudanese can see the novel.

00:45:56: But I think it is really very interesting for me because, um...I receive many-many uh..very positive feedback about this book.

00:46:10: And some people may be here in my cities they also like said that This book make us rethink About things.

00:46:25: It is yes about Sudan and South Sudan, but she said they say it's like sometimes we just read things that were not before focusing on.

00:46:39: And for me I love this kind of comments when come from people because... Sometimes a writer you don't want it to work, to be close or just cover.

00:46:57: To say this story of some people because our dreams is what we are writing can relate with all human beings anywhere.

00:47:09: so when I receive these kinds of compliments and comments make me like yes maybe i did Yeah,

00:47:20: and you're already also nominated for a literature prize that

00:47:25: I am really happy.

00:47:27: I'm

00:47:28: honoured yeah?

00:47:29: Yeah!

00:47:30: And i was also really happy about it when I saw it.

00:47:32: so... When are doing readings here?

00:47:40: Are you reading with someone who is reading the German part or are you reading in English Or are you reading in Arabic and German?

00:47:52: Yes, I'm just.

00:47:53: they asked me to read like very small parts In the language of their writing.

00:48:00: So i read Very Like one paragraph in arabic And then someone who reads a german version.

00:48:09: Okay Yeah ,I was just interested in that because Because now

00:48:15: I am still learning the language But by reading, it's still a challenge for me.

00:48:24: Yeah of course and also you know as we said in the beginning language does something to attacks like even if its super good and thought through translation is always sensitive topic.

00:48:39: so I was just thinking about how are your thoughts on this?

00:48:46: Since there's so much to talk about and I just thought maybe we could have also prepared a piece to read, but also... ...I think I recommend anyway people who've just read it in German or English.

00:49:02: Or Arabic whatever they wanted!

00:49:04: I would like go back to school for the end of this conversation to frame it little bit at the beginning and talk a little bit of like literature in school, because you mentioned it at the start.

00:49:22: And now I thought what would you want if for example... ...I'm a literature teacher in Germany and if i would choose to read your book in my class?

00:49:39: What would come to your mind that you wish for the students, maybe understand or talk about when they read a book?

00:49:50: I really don't know if... because sometimes people invite me reading in school and then my books are like adults' books.

00:50:06: It's for adult people!

00:50:10: because it is very tough sometimes in a short story, some of the short stories are very tough.

00:50:16: And yeah but I really don't know what for me.

00:50:24: if students want to read my books or paragraphs one I can be prepared, they can read more about the culture.

00:50:44: The cultural acts of people inside a book so that it can expand their mind.

00:50:51: They know also there is some people where else have their beliefs and lifestyles And how are going through challenges and how they solve it, And How They Are Survived.

00:51:13: I think this is because problems are anywhere.

00:51:16: challenges are everywhere.

00:51:19: It's not like just for people who go through conflict or poor but i think from the end of experience that we can learn get out stronger from what they are going through and how something very small like forgiveness can change someone.

00:51:49: As if you see when Lucy, when Treza had abused Lucy then Lucy said I need Treza.

00:52:03: now she's supposed to come back.

00:52:07: And then after this experience, Lucy forgives Teresa.

00:52:13: Teresa is totally changed to another person.

00:52:16: she become very kind and very close to Lucy a sister something like that.

00:52:23: and Lucy said some people just need the forgiveness To be an other or two change.

00:52:31: Because sometimes we need to change people by force our Like we are shouting or like, just cut them off from our lives because they did something very hard to us.

00:52:47: But in this story you lose the very natural girls who said someone of forgiveness can change some one.

00:52:55: so... And I think it is not experience for someone on their village outside there and southern.

00:53:03: It's a human being experienced sometimes We didn't forgive people and then we also like passed the life or lost a chance to make them change.

00:53:18: Yeah, thank you for mentioning that it was also part of... For me really showed again all the dimensions in complexity as well human relationships And over time Yes, and I just saw that when you said your book is an edit-book because i'm teaching literature.

00:53:42: So many books which are so called classics where you never discuss if this isn't okay for students or not?

00:53:54: Because like...I don't know immediately!

00:53:57: a smaller now or say you shouldn't read it in school, but I immediately thought about the Kafka.

00:54:06: And then I had... You said like maybe my book is too hard for you and that's when all of the Kafka books were written!

00:54:14: Then i saw them saying I'm not sure there are so many other books which have been very very hard where you never ask kids?

00:54:21: Yes

00:54:22: because at first reading When I just came like two months or three months in Germany, my father is reading and I read one of the short stories.

00:54:36: And then while someone's reading their German text and I saw that people faces get very red... ...and some people start to cry very heavily!

00:54:52: And i felt so sorry.

00:54:55: And that, and I wish I can say...I'm really very sorry.

00:55:00: I didn't expecting they could just have all this heart to feel about what is going on in the story about these things because adults can go through it, read and do.

00:55:27: but I don't want to create some kind of harm for under-aged children.

00:55:39: And there is a difference in... time, like when you talk about plastics and situations that are still present of course but this was just a thought came to my mind.

00:55:51: And also I think it does have or might have connection with which kind stories from whom people agreeing to hear and this also has something to do with power dynamics, especially in Germany.

00:56:14: Sometimes people might say no it's too harsh we can't do but other stories are not so harsh.

00:56:28: people's experience and positioning, but this is just like a side note which I don't want to be unmentioned in thinking about what's legit for school.

00:56:47: In the end of every episode you or all guests are asked by me create a homework for everyone who is listening, which is supposed to be there too.

00:57:04: Because in every talk we can just like scratch like the surface of topics, you know.

00:57:10: Like we can't go and say okay let's read your whole book or tell a story about everything in your work.

00:57:20: so take something with you after listening to this podcast maybe something that activates you to think more.

00:57:34: So you can now do that too and create a homework for me but also everyone who is listening.

00:57:47: Yes, the homework I created from your question how they use talk about Sudan?

00:58:03: And what is Sudan actually?

00:58:08: to go because Sudan, one is of the African countries and through Sudan their need is running the mile.

00:58:19: And yes I want give homework for people.

00:58:24: just leave war or conflicts on site and search about Sudan resources about how big Sudan is, and the tourism sites in Sudan was beautiful places.

00:58:55: All these things just to leave politics and conflict on site and go to visit Sudan land as people, as a land, as culture.

00:59:13: And the clothes is the dances are different languages that being in Sudan.

00:59:22: Thank you!

00:59:23: I will add it's good starting point for reading your book So don't have to mention yourself.

00:59:33: Thank you really, and I would like to thank my translator Larissa Bander.

00:59:39: She is really did very well because one of the readers here in my city also said he think that she's a very good translator.

00:59:59: I really want to send her a flower and say thank you for this great job.

01:00:07: Yes, And Thank You For Having The Time To Present Your Work.

01:00:12: Of Course We Can Put Everything That You Want In The Show Notes So People Can Also Go There Maybe Die A Little Bit Deeper And Start Doing The Homework That You Just Created.

01:00:27: Thank you really.

01:00:29: And

01:00:30: we can't do that!

01:00:34: Thanks everyone for listening to the second English episode, yay!